Mar 4, 2014, 8:29 AM
How can someone be the father of someone else’s lies? I guess a father in that sense is not the creator, but the care giver. He takes responsibility. That seems right. It echoes of truth.
So what about the other phrase.
I will deliver thee up, and it shall be unto thee according to his desire. And thou shalt rule over him;
Rule is cross referenced to verse 30 “And Satan sware unto Cain that he would do according to his commands. And all these things were done in secret.” (Moses 5:30)
I guess there’s nothing wrong with that phrase. Ruling doesn’t mean we aren’t affected by the desires of others. Satan wants Cain to be a certain way, to live a Satan like life. He’s willing to follow his commands if Cain is willing to be that kind of person.
Love of Satan is still the heart of this point.
Mar 3, 2014, 8:47 AM
So realized the verse quoted below is not complete.
23 If thou doest well, thou shalt be accepted. And if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door, and Satan desireth to have thee; and except thou shalt hearken unto my commandments, I will deliver thee up, and it shall be unto thee according to his desire. And thou shalt rule over him;
24 For from this time forth thou shalt be the father of his lies; thou shalt be called Perdition; for thou wast also before the world.
25 And it shall be said in time to come–That these abominations were had from Cain; for he rejected the greater counsel which was had from God; and this is a cursing which I will put upon thee, except thou repent.
(Moses 5:23-25)
Verse 24 is also enigmatic. “Father of his lies”.
Not sure how those two enigmatic phrases fit together, of it they become less enigmatic in being taken as a whole.
Feb 28, 2014, 7:44 AM
God makes us free. That’s an interesting thought. It’s a different view of what it means to “rule” as God. There is something to this, an opposite that is complex and unexpected.
Thu, Feb 27, 2014, 7:35 AM
This is one of the more enigmatic verses of scripture.
23 If thou doest well, thou shalt be accepted. And if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door, and Satan desireth to have thee; and except thou shalt hearken unto my commandments, I will deliver thee up, and it shall be unto thee according to his desire. And thou shalt rule over him; (Moses 5:23)
How is it possible to rule over someone and yet it be according to the other person’s desire?
I guess perhaps the point might be that satan wants us to sin, yet if we do, the net result is, by having a body, we are more advanced than he is. In the end we will rule over him. What a strange situation that is.
I wonder what the opposite of this is, how does this fact work with God? I think on that side God makes is free.
But doesn’t God rule over Satan? And he doesn’t sin? How can this verse be true?
I still don’t know what it means really.
On Feb 20, 2014, at 7:02 AM
A succinct little summary of the plan of salvation.
14 And the Lord God called upon men by the Holy Ghost everywhere and commanded them that they should repent;
15 And as many as believed in the Son, and repented of their sins, should be saved; and as many as believed not and repented not, should be damned; and the words went forth out of the mouth of God in a firm decree; wherefore they must be fulfilled.
(Moses 5:14-15)
More evidence of yesterday’s entry about not loving God.
16 And Adam and Eve, his wife, ceased not to call upon God. And Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bare Cain, and said: I have gotten a man from the Lord; wherefore he may not reject his words. But behold, Cain hearkened not, saying: Who is the Lord that I should know him?
(Moses 5:16)
If we love him, we’ll do what he says. If not, we won’t. As children we have an innate desire to know God I think. But somewhere that desire can be extinguished.
On Feb 19, 2014, at 9:24 AM
This scripture doesn’t change the nature of the atonement, but it speaks to the departure point for its use in our lives.
Chapter 5
12 And Adam and Eve blessed the name of God, and they made all things known unto their sons and their daughters.
13 And Satan came among them, saying: I am also a son of God; and he commanded them, saying: Believe it not; and they believed it not, and they loved Satan more than God. And men began from that time forth to be carnal, sensual, and devilish.
Feb 18, 2014, 10:22 AM
I’m not sure how the story of Cain relates to the Atonement….it just seems like it is everything “non-Atonement”. This warrants some additional thinking.
02/05/2014 06:18 AM
8 Wherefore, thou shalt do all that thou doest in the name of the Son, and thou shalt repent and call upon God in the name of the Son forevermore.(Moses 5:8)
This command is very clear and direct: “all that thou doest”. Does that mean we think about religion all the time? We have to eat, to sleep, to work. Are we not to do those things?
Doing things in the name of the Son does not mean we think about religion all the time or spend all our time in church or in the temple. It means we act as if we were the Savior in everything we do. He had to eat. He had to prepare meals. He slept as a mortal. He worked. He cared for others We are to do all those things as if we are him, all day, everyday. That is how we become his children. And then his descendants. And the his heirs. That is eternal life.
On Feb 3, 2014, at 8:39 PM
Imagine the teaching that must have taken place, when the savior was commanded to make clothing for Adam and Eve. It was the first sacrifice of animal. The steps to follow, the patient instruction, the pausing to ensure what was taught was understood, knowing that there would not be another similar chance as they were to be driven from the garden. There were more instructions, verbal only, from the garden, but not visual.
I suspect they were taught that any use of animal was a sacrifice of a kind. What deep feelings it must have brought. Very sacred.
Kip on Character 